Author Topic: UN Court Verdict Against Russia - Mixed outcome  (Read 237 times)

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Online Reggie

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Not to toot my own horn too loudly, but beep beep, I told you so:  Ukraine's strongest angle was discrimination against the Muslim Crimean Tatar population, which is also why I say bigotry (here or anywhere) is not cool, and if you really love Ukraine, remember Ukraine is not a homogenous population. 

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6.  It's a bit dodgy, because the treaties ratified by Russia and Ukraine do not provide for a jurisdictional basis to address the unlawful use of force. Emphasis on the grounds here is important.

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11.  Ukraine's strongest claims under CERD may be regarding the Crimean Tatars.  See Convention on the Elimination
of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,
- Reggie, retired international lawyer, and employee at U.N. in my youth.

Like a fortune teller, I was right on both points:  High-5, show me some love. :-*

Here is the Actual Story: 

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THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) ? The International Court of Justice on Wednesday rejected Ukraine's request for measures aimed at blocking Russian support for rebels in eastern Ukraine, saying Kiev did not provide enough evidence to back up its claim that Moscow sponsored terrorism by funding and arming the rebels.

Ukraine had asked the court to order Russia to shore up its border and prevent weapons, vehicles, people and money reaching the rebels while the case is heard in full, but the court refused.

However, in another element of Ukraine's legal case against Russia, the world court imposed measures to rein in discrimination by Moscow against ethnic Tatars and other minorities in Crimea.

At hearings last month, Ukraine accused Russia of sponsoring terrorism by providing funds and weapons to rebels in Ukraine and of discriminating against Tatars and others in Crimea. Russia rejects the allegations.

The court took Ukraine's side on allegations of discrimination in Crimea. In a 13-3 decision by judges, the court said Russia "must refrain from maintaining or imposing limitations on the ability of the Crimean Tatar community to conserve its representative institutions."

Russia last year banned the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People, the self-governing legislative body of the Crimean Tatars, calling it an extremist organization.

"It is clear that the Crimean Tatar factor here is being used as an instrument of pressure on Russia," said Ruslan Balbek, a Russian parliament member from Crimea.

On Wednesday, the U.N. court's judges also unanimously ordered Russia "to ensure the availability of education in the Ukrainian language" in Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula that Moscow annexed in March 2014, sparking international outrage. A separatist insurgency erupted in eastern Ukraine the following month, backed by Russia.

The case in The Hague, which also seeks reparations for the 2014 downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over eastern Ukraine, adds a legal front to the bitter, drawn-out conflict.

The U.N. court said it expects both Moscow and Kiev to work to implement the Minsk agreements that were designed to bring peace to conflict-ravaged eastern Ukraine.

Wednesday's ruling is a preliminary decision aimed at preserving the rights Ukraine claims Russia is breaching while the full case makes its way through the court, a process likely to take years.

In a legal victory for Ukraine, the 16-judge panel said that the court appears, at this early stage of proceedings, to have jurisdiction in both cases.

"For us this decision of the court is a positive one," Ukrainian Deputy Foreign Minister Olena Zerkal said outside court. "We proved our position and we see that we have a very good perspective for the hearings on merits."

The Russian delegation left court without commenting.



My Comment:  BTW, this may be used to pressure Russia in the future and is very important -->  "In a legal victory for Ukraine, the 16-judge panel said that the court appears, at this early stage of proceedings, to have jurisdiction in both cases."   We might see a full-reversal on the unlawful use of force issue, if it's handled correctly by the lawyers (which I'm skeptical will be).  Nonetheless, we could be coming back to the "unlawful use of force" issue.  There's another prediction for you.  Check this thread in a few years.
« Last Edit: 22:39 19-Apr-2017 by Reggie »



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Re: UN Court Verdict Against Russia - Mixed outcome
« Reply #1 on: 22:59 19-Apr-2017 »
You're entitled to your opinion but recent events have spurred some uncomfortable but necessary soul-searching by a lot of liberally-minded ppl in the name of preservation. When you play to tie w/ ppl who play to win it's never pretty. I wouldn't mind having Germany or Sweden of 15 years ago back. Why do you think I'm moving to EE? ;) Our ancestors fought and died for centuries to keep the blood cult out and if we roll out the red carpet it would have all been for nothing. They are commanded by the Quran to never assimilate and to destroy us. If they are not fundamentalists, they're not good Muslims and risk being murdered for not walking the walk. Code red has no patience for PC. A politician who doesn't declare islamophobia is naive or lying and can't be trusted. Statistically, keeping the population under approximately 2% is generally sufficient to maintain order in a society.

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« Last Edit: 23:01 19-Apr-2017 by paper »

Online Reggie

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Re: UN Court Verdict Against Russia - Mixed outcome
« Reply #2 on: 23:51 19-Apr-2017 »
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Our ancestors fought and died for centuries to keep the blood cult out --- Why do you think I'm moving to EE? ;)

Let me guess:  Because the Taliban and Al Qaeda invaded Palo Alto, California (where you you claim you were a student at Stanford). 

Or, maybe there is more to the story.  I used to hire Stanford Grads from the law school (it's in or near the Kresge building if I remember correctly, tan Spanish style roof).  The men and women I hired are making plenty of money in the U.S., not fleeing to "EE" to escape "the blood cult," as you suggest.   Are you for real or just a troll.   What type of student president were you at Stanford?  Tell us more about that.  Nobody would elect you to anything at Stanford with the views you just espoused.  That I can say with certainty.

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They are commanded by the Quran to never assimilate and to destroy us.

Religious texts of all sorts, Christian, Islamic, Judaic, and so on say the same types of things.  But if every member of their faith actually believed those violent words, our troops would have no interpreters in Afghanistan.  And your Muslim peers at Stanford would have gotten you long ago.

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Our ancestors fought and died for centuries to keep the blood cult out


I loved the movie Braveheart, by the way. But I know that's not what you are referring to.  People died for many different reasons throughout history.  Whether we are discussing the crusades or the Turkish-Muslim invasion of Greece; Neither of these types of scenarios are the Crimean Tatar scenario.  The Tatars are indigenous to a little area called Crimea; they've been there at least three times longer than Europeans have been in America.  And the Tatars are not invading anybody.

So, compare apples to apples, not to oranges.

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and if we roll out the red carpet - - -


Again, the Crimean Tatars are indigenous to Crimea.  We're not "rolling out the red carpet" for anyone.  WTF does that mean?    If anything, we are a guest in their country. 

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If they are not fundamentalists, they're not good Muslims and risk being murdered for not walking the walk.

See I'm different than you.  I think the opposite.  If they don't murder us, they are good Muslims.  That's what I believe.  Why is your vision the same as the Saudi fundamentalist vision?

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Code red has no patience for PC.

I am not being PC.  I am stating that you are relying on over-generalizations, stereotypes, and intellectually-weak and oversimplified ideas of a particular type of person or thing.

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A politician who doesn't declare islamophobia is naive or lying and can't be trusted.

Firstly, politicians will declare anything they think will get them elected, so they probably shouldn't be trusted any way. 

Secondly, and more importantly, it is the Crimean Tatars that are actively resisting Putin's takeover of Ukraine.  So, to be "Islamophobic" would undermine the cause of liberating Crimea.  Why would the Tatars return to Ukraine only to find jackasses like you, that know nothing about their traditions, history, habits or way of life, waiting to greet them?*  That's a serious question.  Wouldn't they think that?

* BTW, you are the first person that has ever accused me of being PC. :D
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I wouldn't mind having Germany or Sweden of 15 years ago back

Did they teach you at Stanford that the Crimean Tatars creeped into Crimea yesterday?  That they were funded by Saudi Arabia the way the Jihadis in Europe were?   

What do Germany and Sweden have to do with anything when discussing Crimea and the Tatars? 


See, the sh-t you write, is for people with weak intellects.  I was born into a Catholic family, and I could make over generalizations about Catholic priests molesting little boys, and so on.  Yes, it's a problem.  Yes, there are also islamic fanatics that are bags of sh-t (mostly funded or radicalized by Saudi Arabia and Qatar).   But your generalized bigotry is for simple-minded people -- it's not for me.  And I'm not "liberal," I'm conservative.  Bigotry is just not the way forward for me. 

Good luck finding a job.  I wouldn't touch your resume with a ten foot pole.  And I certainly don't believe you attended Stanford or were elected to anything at Stanford with these types of views.  Impossible.

Hold up a copy of your Diploma with your name blanked out and write "Salo" in its place.  I'll give you 1 hour, before you're an official bullshitter in my book.  I'll be happy to do the same -- hurry up.  Let's not be late; people will be amused.






« Last Edit: 00:21 20-Apr-2017 by Reggie »

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Re: UN Court Verdict Against Russia - Mixed outcome
« Reply #3 on: 00:22 20-Apr-2017 »
Maybe I'll save that as pdf one day and read it as a Kindle book if quasi-immortality and neocortex enhancement come out, but for now I can't read at page-per-second pace. I jumped straight to the end to see if my confirmation bias was right and it was dead on. Perhaps in the future we'll be a less predictable species but I won't get my hopes up. Anyway, cheers. I envy your sentiment but have no say in the matter.

Online Reggie

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Re: UN Court Verdict Against Russia - Mixed outcome
« Reply #4 on: 00:26 20-Apr-2017 »
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Maybe I'll save that as pdf one day and read it as a Kindle book if quasi-immortality and neocortex enhancement come out, but for now I can't read at page-per-second pace. I jumped straight to the end to see if my confirmation bias was right and it was dead on. Perhaps in the future we'll be a less predictable species but I won't get my hopes up. Anyway, cheers. I envy your sentiment but have no say in the matter.

Oh no.  Like I said previously, you put a copy of your "Stanford Diploma" with a post-it note hiding your name.  Write the word "Salo" over it.  I know you are a bullshitter.  Stanford grads know how to use the internet and youtube and to put a link here. 

I am waiting.  Tic Toc Bullshitter.  I gave you 1 hour; you are online now, I see you, reading this and farting up a storm.  Oooff that nervous smell just comes through the screen.
« Last Edit: 00:34 20-Apr-2017 by Reggie »

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Re: UN Court Verdict Against Russia - Mixed outcome
« Reply #5 on: 00:56 20-Apr-2017 »
No idea what you're on about TBH. But I never attacked your character or was accusatory toward you at all. Gonna take the high road on this one. Tic-toc, time's up. 

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Re: UN Court Verdict Against Russia - Mixed outcome
« Reply #6 on: 01:05 20-Apr-2017 »
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No idea what you're on about TBH. But I never attacked your character or was accusatory toward you at all. Gonna take the high road on this one. Tic-toc, time's up.

I'm taking the high road too.  I want to give you a job.  You say you're a Stanford grad that was elected student president.  You are seeking work on another thread.  It's the third time I'm asking you for your diploma (just cover up your name and write "Salo").   

There's your $20,000 cash advance for your new job with a note for you (see photo).  Let's see your diploma Mister Student President of Stanford.

--------------------
Edit:  There you have it.  He comes on this site looking for work in Ukraine claiming to be a Stanford graduate, and student president; then he wangs everyone around asking about how to prove financial solvency at the border.  I offer him $20,000 cash, for 60 seconds of work just to produce his diploma with his name covered-up and the word "Salo" and he runs.  I give him an hour to do this.  The money solves both of his problems, but we sit around and get wanged around by imposters.  Just sad.

Paper:  What can I do in Ukraine? [BA (3.9+/4.0), student president, Stanford]
 on: 04:23 01-Apr-2017

Paper: Proving financial security when entering the country as an American
 Paper Today at 08:27


The internet is a freaky place.  FYI, Stanford grads from the law school would accept 1/2 that as signing bonus to do real work and study for the Bar exam; we're talking months of seriously hard work.  He can't produce his diploma in an hour, with his name covered up! 


 
« Last Edit: 01:49 20-Apr-2017 by Reggie »

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Re: UN Court Verdict Against Russia - Mixed outcome
« Reply #7 on: 05:13 20-Apr-2017 »
I thought I was done here but noticed that photo. You'll do what you want anyway but please get that shit off the damn net. You know good and well that a hacker could have you located and dead in minutes.

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Re: UN Court Verdict Against Russia - Mixed outcome
« Reply #8 on: 13:41 20-Apr-2017 »


"When surrounded by the dark void of the wilfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Pompey Nik