Author Topic: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:  (Read 588 times)

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Online David Rochlin

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #15 on: 19:30 14-Mar-2017 »
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"Under the proposed amendments, Ukrainians would lose their citizenship if they "voluntarily" obtain citizenship in another country.

They also specify that anyone who obtained Ukrainian citizenship but did not return the passports of the countries of their previous citizenship would also lose Ukrainian citizenship.

The discussion of dual citizenship has come to the fore in Ukraine following unconfirmed media reports saying that suspended tax and customs service chief Roman Nasirov, who has been arrested on suspicion of corruption, holds foreign passports".  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

My comment:  So his "foreign passports" stole $75 million?  Or he, Nasirov, stole the loot?   

A foreign passport is not immunity from prosecution in any country.  So what are they fixated on?   

For argument's sake, let's say they need a law on passports to combat corruption: the law can be narrowly tailored to apply only to government officials  ("Government officials cannot hold a foreign passport").  So why apply it to everyone?   

This is a government hell-bent on destroying the country through flagrant stupidity or willful mismanagement.

Still it's hard to say that it's the dumbest legislative proposal: 'Prime Minister Vladimir Groisman at the weekly cabinet meeting on Wednesday, 13 July 2016, stated he supports a legal prohibition on divorce.'  <a href="You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login">Источник</a>


As Old Perdon said, the Passport is an escape route, but not just to get out of the country.  Crooks in Ukraine specifically go to countries from which Ukraine would have difficulty extraditing them:
Russia, Israel, and the U.S. and UK are quite popular destinations. 

Online Reggie

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #16 on: 19:57 14-Mar-2017 »
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Crooks in Ukraine specifically go to countries from which Ukraine would have difficulty extraditing them:
Russia, Israel, and the U.S. and UK are quite popular destinations.

Wouldn't it then make more sense to spend time on strengthening extradition treaties?   

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For argument's sake, let's say they need a law on passports to combat corruption: the law can be narrowly tailored to apply only to government officials  ("Government officials cannot hold a foreign passport").  So why apply it to everyone?

See my comment above.   If the crooks used X (insert whatever you want) to further a crime.  Does it make sense to ban everyone from having X, or just the class of people (government officials) that use X in furtherance of crime? 

IMHO, it reflects poorly on Ukraine's willingness and/or ability to investigate, apprehend and prosecute if they think banning passports will fix a major crime problem.

And someone sophisticated enough to carry-out a major crime, is sophisticated enough to hide a second passport or commit the crime through proxies.

Online shuggah21

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #17 on: 06:00 15-Mar-2017 »
Normally Nasirov would never be convicted of anything by Ukrainian courts, but the IMF, EU, and America see this as a test case as to whether Ukraine can deal with its corruption problem. Continued foreign aid might depend on Nasirov being convicted. Poroshenko has an interest to make this happen.

On the other hand, maybe if Nasirov sees that the government truly plans to convict him and give him meaningful punishment, he wants to cut a deal. He might have information that could take down higher-level officials (maybe even Poroshenko himself) or important oligarchs for their own corruption schemes.

Put it all together and it could benefit a lot of parties if Nasirov were to somehow end up dead. The foreign benefactors would have no reason to withhold funding, and the local thieves remain safe. Maybe I'm too cynical.
« Last Edit: 06:06 15-Mar-2017 by shuggah21 »

Offline Fraucha

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #18 on: 06:18 15-Mar-2017 »
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Normally Nasirov would never be convicted of anything by Ukrainian courts, but the IMF, EU, and America see this as a test case as to whether Ukraine can deal with its corruption problem. Continued foreign aid might depend on Nasirov being convicted. Poroshenko has an interest to make this happen.

On the other hand, maybe if Nasirov sees that the government truly plans to convict him and give him meaningful punishment, he wants to cut a deal. He might have information that could take down higher-level officials (maybe even Poroshenko himself) or important oligarchs for their own corruption schemes.

Put it all together and it could benefit a lot of parties if Nasirov were to somehow end up dead. The foreign benefactors would have no reason to withhold funding, and the local thieves remain safe. Maybe I'm too cynical.

No, not cynical. You make a good point.  We should have a poll, Dead or Not before it's too late.
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Online David Rochlin

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #19 on: 06:21 15-Mar-2017 »
Some crooked Oligarch cronies, who might have fingered their patrons, appear to have died in recent years, but some of them are believed to have faked their deaths and used that second passport as a stay out of jail, free, card.

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #20 on: 07:25 15-Mar-2017 »
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Normally Nasirov would never be convicted of anything by Ukrainian courts, but the IMF, EU, and America see this as a test case as to whether Ukraine can deal with its corruption problem. Continued foreign aid might depend on Nasirov being convicted. Poroshenko has an interest to make this happen.

On the other hand, maybe if Nasirov sees that the government truly plans to convict him and give him meaningful punishment, he wants to cut a deal. He might have information that could take down higher-level officials (maybe even Poroshenko himself) or important oligarchs for their own corruption schemes.

Put it all together and it could benefit a lot of parties if Nasirov were to somehow end up dead. The foreign benefactors would have no reason to withhold funding, and the local thieves remain safe. Maybe I'm too cynical.

No, not cynical. You make a good point.  We should have a poll, Dead or Not before it's too late.


Nasimov should be dead but by the State like they do in China to corrupt bankers. I hope the IMF et al make Ukraine burn a whole bunch of these assholes in order to get another single dollar. You can't have a civilization with people so goddamn stupid and evil.
Твоя голова всегда в ответе за то, куда сядет твой зад.

Offline frank1010

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #21 on: 08:47 15-Mar-2017 »
Look at Russia or Chins, countries which live under dictatorship rather long. Hence such civilasation is quite successful (for the leading caste ...). How china deals with some corrupt people is not defined by anti corruption law but by jealousy, competition and political behaviour.

Online Reggie

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #22 on: 19:59 15-Mar-2017 »

How things may be interpreted:

Nasirov Dead = dangerous to work for the oligarchs or killed by the government because he was about to rat other officials out.

Nasirov convicted = chance for gov. to say "we're doing a good job" and "we're tough on corruption"  (hell, they can say it; they need to say something even if nobody really believes it).   

Nasirov in a perpetual bed-ridden state = 'Hey, let's forget about this, go back to drinking vodka, and watch more Eurovision.'

Nasirov recovers his health and is found not guilty = "Guess what happened to the prosecutor that tried to bring this case!"

Nasirov convicted, serves short prison sentence, appears in public with braided hair = 'The new leader of maidan 2.0 has arrived.  All hail Nasirov so we can embark in a new catastrophic direction.'  Nasirov becomes only second to Princess Olga in Ukrainian folklore.


Offline EnglishMKyiv

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #23 on: 10:01 16-Mar-2017 »
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I for one would like to know the answer to this (  there are some exceptions that allow people to have other citizenships ) does anyone know?


Rada membership? Anyone requiring a quick escape route?  :)

Sorry, I'll get my coat.  :(

I am British and live in Ukraine with my PR.

My 2 daughters were born here and are thus Ukrainian.

The British authorities disagree however as I, their Dad, am British then my daughters are British too.

Net result my poor hard done by daughters are forced to be dual citizens.

When in Ukraine they are Ukrainians - when arriving anywhere else they will be able to choose which passport to present on arrival.

It is not their fault that their Dad is British so they did not choose to be dual national citizens so the law does not apply to them.
« Last Edit: 10:04 16-Mar-2017 by EnglishMKyiv »
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Online Eddie

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #24 on: 16:27 20-Mar-2017 »
Just wondering is anyone is in the same boat here. 

Back story....wife has property in Ukraine, then emigrates to USA legally, obtains citizenship and then marries me.  Then she builds house on property in Ukraine.

I guess technically she is not considered a Ukrainian citizen anymore by the Ukrainian authorities because Ukraine doesn't recognize dual citizenship. 

Any hiccups to be wary of as a US citizen owning property.  Should she have a Will in Ukraine or how is that handled over there?

Is there any reason she should renew her Ukrainian internal and external passports while we are on vacation and just keep acting like she is a Ukrainian Citizen while in Ukraine.


Online David Rochlin

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #25 on: 19:53 20-Mar-2017 »
If she uses her Ukrainian Passport and they renew it, then she is a Ukrainian citizen.  If they won't let her use the Ukrainian passport and they won't renew it, then she is not.  You should act as if they have to take some positive action to deny her status, rather than take it upon yourself to clarify the situation for the Ukrainian government.

Offline Tiancai

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Re: Possible new law, Poroshenko to ban dual citizenship:
« Reply #26 on: 08:15 21-Mar-2017 »
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Just wondering is anyone is in the same boat here. 

Back story....wife has property in Ukraine, then emigrates to USA legally, obtains citizenship and then marries me.  Then she builds house on property in Ukraine.

I guess technically she is not considered a Ukrainian citizen anymore by the Ukrainian authorities because Ukraine doesn't recognize dual citizenship. 

Any hiccups to be wary of as a US citizen owning property.  Should she have a Will in Ukraine or how is that handled over there?

Is there any reason she should renew her Ukrainian internal and external passports while we are on vacation and just keep acting like she is a Ukrainian Citizen while in Ukraine.

She should be able to renew her documents at the moment, since the proposed law has not been accepted/enforced as of yet. But if she used her US passport to enter Ukraine, then this might cause her problems in the future if the law does pass (cause this info will be available in the border control database).