Author Topic: New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.  (Read 837 times)

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Offline AkMike

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New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.
« on: 08:46 21-Mar-2017 »
Officials have banned certain electronic devices on flights to the U.S. from 13 international airports due to increased terror threats, sources told Fox News Monday.

The ban is the result of an increased "volume" of chatter suggesting that Al Qaeda and other groups are still looking for ways to sneak explosive materials onboard planes.

Attention all passengers 🛑 pic.twitter.com/VjN58EbJkJ
? Royal Jordanian (@RoyalJordanian) March 20, 2017
The open-ended ban, which goes into effect Tuesday, will also revive strict rules about liquids on planes that date back to post-9/11 flying regulations.

U.S. officials had no immediate comment.
Earlier Monday, Royal Jordanian Airlines announced on its Twitter account that the carrier had banned all electronic or electrical devices from carry-on luggage on flights to and from New York, Chicago, Detroit and Montreal effective Tuesday, March 21.

According to the statement, which cited instructions from "concerned US departments," cellular phones and medical devices were exempt from the ban but laptops, tablets, cameras, DVD players, and gaming devices may only be transported via checked luggage.

Royal Jordanian's tweet was deleted later in the day and a representative from the airline was not immediately available for comment.

Sources told Fox News that the new regulations were not related to President Donald Trump's executive order halting travel to the U.S. from six majority-Muslim countries, but are likely to apply to airports in those countries. Jordan was the only country confirmed to be subject to the ban.

As of Monday afternoon, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) had not issued a warning banning the electronic devices listed by Royal Jordanian in its social media announcement.

In October, the U.S. Department of Transportation issued an emergency ban for fliers and crewmembers on Samsung Galaxy Note7 smartphones on all commercial flights in response to several reported incidents of the phones catching fire.

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Re: New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.
« Reply #1 on: 13:53 21-Mar-2017 »


Really discouraging to have politicians, whether democrat or republican, that refuse to put Saudi Arabia's feet in the fire.  All of the Wahabist / Salafist (Al Qaeda type stuff) is sponsored directly from Saudi Arabia and Qatar using oil money.

What a disaster for the world on so many levels.


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Re: New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.
« Reply #2 on: 14:08 21-Mar-2017 »
I just watched a PBS program about the Li ion batteries and they are they are dangerous. There are new plastic electrolyte batteries now being produced that will not vent, burn or explode and they're paper thin. They can cut into pieces and still work but don't short out.
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Online David Rochlin

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Re: New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.
« Reply #3 on: 17:11 21-Mar-2017 »
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I just watched a PBS program about the Li ion batteries and they are they are dangerous. There are new plastic electrolyte batteries now being produced that will not vent, burn or explode and they're paper thin. They can cut into pieces and still work but don't short out.

An inventor calculated that if a jumbo jet's wings were made with this sort of battery as the surface, it would be practical to fly it long distances with electric engines.

Offline sosednik

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Re: New bans on electronic devices on US flights.
« Reply #4 on: 13:15 24-Mar-2017 »
@David:

Quote
An inventor calculated ...

Meaning no personal disrespect, color me skeptical!

Both inventors and entrepreneurs tend to a certain way of looking at things, in which they see the virtues of their schemes highly magnified, and the problems through very dark glasses.

I remember an elementary text on aircraft design by a professor who had been teaching courses on the subject for many years.  A frustration for creative souls is that small pleasure planes tend to look pretty much alike, because there is a small family of basic designs that are so practical.

As I recall it, he wrote that in every class there would be a student who had made some calculations and came to him saying, "I have a design which greatly outperforms those old Cessnas and Pipers at similar cost, using the same motor!"  He went on to write that typically, these super airplane designs:
  • could only carry the pilot, with no co-pilot or passenger
  • would require said pilot to line prone on back or belly, with attendant problems of visibility
  • would induce hearing loss by a shattering cockpit noise level
  • needed a landing speed of at least 140 mph (for those who don't know small planes, this is a bad thing!)
Most manufactured things owe their general design, to it being the most practical solution to the problem.
____________________________

Young engineer types get very excited when they learn the formulas and use them to try out their own ideas.  Here's another story:

An engineering student heard one of his classmates explain that a steam engine small enough to easily hold in your hands could be powerful enough to propel a family car.  This student thought, "there's got to be some kind of catch, or lots of people would be driving cars powered by these little steam engines."

So he thought for a while, and said to his classmate, "Aha!  But how big would the boiler be?"  His classmate had already thought of this, and calculated that a suitcase-sized boiler would be more than sufficient.

Feeling that he had missed something, he recounted this conversation to one of his professors, who smiled and said "ask him how big his condenser must be!"

Online David Rochlin

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Re: New bans on electronic devices on US flights.
« Reply #5 on: 13:52 24-Mar-2017 »
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@David:

Quote
An inventor calculated ...

Meaning no personal disrespect, color me skeptical!

Both inventors and entrepreneurs tend to a certain way of looking at things, in which they see the virtues of their schemes highly magnified, and the problems through very dark glasses.

I remember an elementary text on aircraft design by a professor who had been teaching courses on the subject for many years.  A frustration for creative souls is that small pleasure planes tend to look pretty much alike, because there is a small family of basic designs that are so practical.

As I recall it, he wrote that in every class there would be a student who had made some calculations and came to him saying, "I have a design which greatly outperforms those old Cessnas and Pipers at similar cost, using the same motor!"  He went on to write that typically, these super airplane designs:
  • could only carry the pilot, with no co-pilot or passenger
  • would require said pilot to line prone on back or belly, with attendant problems of visibility
  • would induce hearing loss by a shattering cockpit noise level
  • needed a landing speed of at least 140 mph (for those who don't know small planes, this is a bad thing!)
Most manufactured things owe their general design, to it being the most practical solution to the problem.
____________________________

Young engineer types get very excited when they learn the formulas and use them to try out their own ideas.  Here's another story:

An engineering student heard one of his classmates explain that a steam engine small enough to easily hold in your hands could be powerful enough to propel a family car.  This student thought, "there's got to be some kind of catch, or lots of people would be driving cars powered by these little steam engines."

So he thought for a while, and said to his classmate, "Aha!  But how big would the boiler be?"  His classmate had already thought of this, and calculated that a suitcase-sized boiler would be more than sufficient.

Feeling that he had missed something, he recounted this conversation to one of his professors, who smiled and said "ask him how big his condenser must be!"

This is the story, for whatever it is worth...
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Offline sosednik

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Re: New bans on electronic devices on US flights.
« Reply #6 on: 16:29 24-Mar-2017 »
Thanks, David, for linking to the article.

Luke Workman (the idea man) is reportedly a battery pack expert.  I suppose he's "in the dark" where it comes to aviation.  In brief ...

1.  If his figures are correct, and I understand them aright, a plane would need ten times the weight of batteries as it needed in jet fuel to get the same amount of propulsive work.  Considering that Concorde took of with half of its weight in fuel, that would be a problem!

2.  While electric motors are well-suited to turning propellers or fans for subsonic flight, I am aware of no way to use a purely mechanical engine to get a plane supersonic.

3.  For most of its flight, almost all of Concorde's wing surfaces were within a few degrees of 100C, a temperature at which lithium ion batteries have degraded performance and shortened life (usually, the maximum rated temperature for these batteries is about 50C).

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Re: New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.
« Reply #7 on: 16:35 24-Mar-2017 »
Well color me skeptical, ::)  but I tend to suspect Workmans abilities when he walks around with a chicken on his shoulder.  :D
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Re: New bans on electronic devices on US flights.
« Reply #8 on: 22:03 24-Mar-2017 »
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Officials have banned certain electronic devices on flights to the U.S. from 13 international airports due to increased terror threats, sources told Fox News Monday.

According to the statement, which cited instructions from "concerned US departments," cellular phones and medical devices were exempt from the ban but laptops, tablets, cameras, DVD players, and gaming devices may only be transported via checked luggage.


So dildos are ok in hand luggage ?   Or is that considered a gaming device?


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Re: New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.
« Reply #9 on: 07:14 25-Mar-2017 »
Good question! Is the device of your preference electronic, electronic or manual? Radio controled or one of the new ones controled by cell phones? Will it he in the carry on luggage ot more personally carried?  ::) ::)
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Online David Rochlin

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Re: New bans on electronic devices on US flights.
« Reply #10 on: 12:01 25-Mar-2017 »
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Thanks, David, for linking to the article.

Luke Workman (the idea man) is reportedly a battery pack expert.  I suppose he's "in the dark" where it comes to aviation.  In brief ...

1.  If his figures are correct, and I understand them aright, a plane would need ten times the weight of batteries as it needed in jet fuel to get the same amount of propulsive work.  Considering that Concorde took of with half of its weight in fuel, that would be a problem!

2.  While electric motors are well-suited to turning propellers or fans for subsonic flight, I am aware of no way to use a purely mechanical engine to get a plane supersonic.

3.  For most of its flight, almost all of Concorde's wing surfaces were within a few degrees of 100C, a temperature at which lithium ion batteries have degraded performance and shortened life (usually, the maximum rated temperature for these batteries is about 50C).

While electricly powered supersonic aircraft are science fiction today, and might well need much more power than Workman's Concord example, and wouldn't resemble a Concord, given a power source, there are futuristic designs out there:
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A Concord jet with all tanks filled to capacity, carries 94400 kilograms of fuel, which is only 10,000 kilograms short of the 104000kg weight of batteries Workman suggests.  I don't know how that would translate into actual range even if the plane were not supersonic.  However, since hypothetical electric powered, supersonic aircraft, mostly would not be as fast as a Concord, they would likely have larger wings, and possibly lighter construction.   
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Although the chemical part of the batteries would be located inside the wing in Workman's proposal, the issue of dissipating heat is certainly very complicated.  And the wing and battery design would have to minimize flexation, changes in shape from stresses of flight. 


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Re: New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.
« Reply #11 on: 13:40 25-Mar-2017 »
@David:

The energy density (energy per weight) Workman claimed for his novel battery design is 3% that of jet fuel.  That's a big step up:  the kinds of batteries you can go out and buy are only 1% of the density of Jet A.

I assume that electric motors are at 99% efficiency, and jets at 33%, so it needs 10 kg of Workman's super battery to get the same propulsion energy as 1 kg of Jet A (in practice, the ratio of efficiencies is probably not so great, so I am flattering the electric plane).

The Concorde situation of fuel taking up about half of takeoff weight is not special to supersonic flight:  it's characteristic of long-range jets.  For example, jumbo jets making very long flights (for example, between the US and eastern Asia) are configured with relatively small numbers of seats.  Of course, that's more comfortable for passengers imprisoned on these long flights, but it's done for a practical reason.  If the jet had anywhere near its maximum seating configuration, the weight of passengers would prohibit loading enough fuel to make the long flight.

So even if the batteries weighed only twice as much as the equivalent jet fuel, it would be a big problem.  At ten times, it's quite impractical.

But within a couple of decades, batteries may well improve enough to "make it fly"

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Re: New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.
« Reply #12 on: 19:51 11-May-2017 »
EU demands urgent talks with Washington over airline laptop ban



The European Union has demanded urgent talks with the United States over a possible extension to some European countries of a U.S. ban on airline passengers taking laptops into cabins, saying any security threats faced are common.

The Trump administration is likely to extend the ban already applicable to flights originating from 10 specific airports in the Middle East, north Africa and Turkey because of fears that a concealed bomb could be installed in electronic devices taken onto an aircraft, officials said.

In a letter to John Kelly, Secretary of Homeland Security, and Elaine Chao, U.S. Secretary of Transportation, and seen by Reuters, the EU executive said it was important that information concerning possible threats involving EU airports be shared.

"We therefore reiterate our willingness to pursue constructive dialogue and we propose that meetings are held as a matter of urgency, both at political and technical level, to jointly assess the risk and review possible common measures," wrote Violeta Bulc, EU Transport Commissioner, and Dimitris Avramopoulos, Commissioner for Migration, Home Affairs and Citizenship.

While no decision has yet been taken, any restrictions could hit major European airlines such as Lufthansa (LHAG.DE), British Airways (ICAG.L), Air France-KLM (AIRF.PA) and industry sources have said airlines and airports have already been working on possible contingency measures.

Olivier Jankovec, director-general of airport trade association ACI Europe, said it was worrying that there appeared to be little coordination between the EU and the United States.

"We know that in the current geopolitical context, with the kind of terrorist threat we face, an efficient response is really predicated on international cooperation - around the threat assessment and the sharing of intelligence. This is not taking place," Jankovec said at a CAPA Centre for Aviation industry conference near Dublin.

The United States imposed the ban in March and was quickly followed by Britain which imposed restrictions on a slightly different set of routes.

European aviation security experts are meeting in Brussels on Thursday to consider possible responses to any extension of the ban. Two EU officials said the discussions had so far concentrated on maintaining a common front.

The EU Ambassador to the United States will meet with Kelly in the coming days to discuss the issue, one of the officials said.

"It is in our common interest that we work closely together to address developing threats in aviation, in advance of any potential applications of new security measures to air carriers operating from the EU to the U.S.," the Commissioners wrote.

Malaysia Airlines CEO Peter Bellew told Reuters on the sidelines of the CAPA conference that an extension of the laptop ban would be a "pity" and make it more difficult for people to travel.

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"I do think it is going to have a fundamental impact on travel to north America and I don't think that is going to go away quickly," Bellew said.

European regulators have warned placing what could be potentially hundreds of devices in the hold on long-haul flights could compromise safety by increasing the risk of fire from poorly deactivated lithium-ion batteries.

"What is very important for us is also that any security challenge would not be mitigated by creating a safety challenge," said Henrik Hololei, director-general of the European Commission's transport department, at the same Dublin conference

Hololei declined to comment on the prospect of reciprocal action being taken by Europe should the laptop ban be extended.

"I don?t want to speculate at this stage about next steps since nothing has been yet issued. It is slightly premature but it is clear that we have also looked into all the possible options," Hololei said.

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Offline kyivkpic

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Re: New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.
« Reply #13 on: 20:31 11-May-2017 »
They finally realized that computer lithium ion batteries are incendiary devices?

They will more or less explode in the fuselage when the common passenger is likely to try and douse it with water.

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« Last Edit: 20:33 11-May-2017 by kyivkpic »
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Offline AkMike

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Re: New bans on electroinc devices on US flights.
« Reply #14 on: 20:59 11-May-2017 »
Hmmm I wonder how shashlik would taste with that fire?   :D :D :D :D
In Russia we only had two TV channels. Channel One was propaganda. Channel Two consisted of a KGB officer telling you: Turn back at once to Channel One. Yakov Smirnoff