Author Topic: Trump Jr: "I forgot"  (Read 433 times)

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Online David Rochlin

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Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« on: 10:44 15-Jul-2017 »
    Trump Jr. attempted to collude with Russia, but deal inartfully prosecuted, claims he forgot about it:
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Kushner and Manafort present for meeting with two alleged Russian agents.
    Email from Goldstone, music promotor spells out that this is Russia's support for Trump.  Jr. is up for that, but very disappointed that the discussion at the meeting is not about helping Trump win, but about the welfare of orphans which he didn't care about.
   Trump Sr.  "Most people would have acted as (Jr.) did"   The President, who didn't know about the meeting, is right, excepting that Hillary would have hired a contractor as was done in the situation with the Dossier.  Hillary would not have been using Chelsea as her bagman for a dirty job like that.




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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #1 on: 11:06 15-Jul-2017 »


"Akhmetshin (a dual Russian/American citizen) is also reportedly a former officer in Russia?s military intelligence service."

If the U.S. government knew this to be true, why did it let this guy (1) become a citizen, (2) let him into country, and (3) let him stay in the country?  And if he has engaged in violations of US criminal laws, why is he walking around a free man?  These types of questions need to be asked.  I think if the allegations are true, the people in the immigration and naturalization services and the intelligence services need to be held accountable - where are the news stories about that?

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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #2 on: 11:37 15-Jul-2017 »
I expect Akhmetshin can be a genuine immigrant, defector, or even a mole.  Really, the more interesting situation is the lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya as the Justice Dept. and State Dept. went to extrordinary efforts to let her stay in the country and ultimately Loretta Lynch might have had to sign something to let her remain in the U.S. :
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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #3 on: 13:41 15-Jul-2017 »
Another question not being asked is why, after having been denied a visa, did oblome's AG cite special circumstances and give the lady advocate a visa? 

And, why did the AG's office give the visa?  Isn't that State's dept?

Another "skandal" that began on Barry's watch.
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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #4 on: 14:05 15-Jul-2017 »
The best one yet!   :D

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The next wave of fascism will come disguised as anti-fascism.

Online David Rochlin

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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #5 on: 19:10 15-Jul-2017 »
Natalia Veselnitskaya personally knows and has done business with President Trump as Miss Universe and the President may have seen her naked, because he bragged about barging into the locker rooms of his contests and asking the women changing costumes if everything is O.K., like it wouldn't raise an eybrow, because it is an inspection by the impressario of the contest.   So, of course Natalia was an obvious choice to infiltrate Trump Tower and right under Melania's nose too!  Fortunately, this Russian spy no longer meets Trump's high standards.
Hello Magazine:
« Last Edit: 19:21 15-Jul-2017 by David Rochlin »

Online David Rochlin

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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #6 on: 03:36 16-Jul-2017 »
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"Akhmetshin (a dual Russian/American citizen) is also reportedly a former officer in Russia?s military intelligence service."

If the U.S. government knew this to be true, why did it let this guy (1) become a citizen, (2) let him into country, and (3) let him stay in the country?  And if he has engaged in violations of US criminal laws, why is he walking around a free man?  These types of questions need to be asked.  I think if the allegations are true, the people in the immigration and naturalization services and the intelligence services need to be held accountable - where are the news stories about that?

Akhmetshin worked for the same group, Fusion GPS, the Pro-Hillary group that sponsored the scandalous Dossier that defamed Trump, and really got the Russia collusion campaign going.  So you could infer that either Akhmetshin works for either political party  that has some dirty job for him, involving Russia.  You can also reasonably suspect that he is out to make money while damaging American's confidence in the political system and politicians.  So, Donald Jr. was probably set up to some degree.  Not that he has an excuse other than genes for being a gullible fool. 
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Kushner's lawyer just quit representing him in matters specifically related to the Russia investigation, a mutual decision.  This decision was taken because Robert Mueller, the Special Counsel, was the Dem connected lawyer's law partner until Mueller quit to work on the Russia investigation. 
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« Last Edit: 11:31 16-Jul-2017 by David Rochlin »

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Why Won't this Trump/Russia Thing Just Fade Away?
« Reply #7 on: 20:41 22-Jul-2017 »
Perhaps, because it keeps getting bigger and stinkier.

The NY Times has found, by searching in publicly available records, that Russian lawyer Natalia V. Veselnitskaya, who claims to have no ties to the Kremlin and never to have worked for the Russian government ...

... 6 years ago represented Military Unit 55002 in a court case.  This unit was created by the FSB (successor to the KGB) and is registered to an address in front of the Lubyanka, in a building that houses various branches of the FSB.

(By way of explanation, many countries have overlap between their military and intelligence activities.  For example, the US NSA is part of the Department of Defense, whereas the CIA is essentially an independent agency.)

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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #8 on: 21:42 22-Jul-2017 »


For the last time; prior cases a lawyer worked on  for clients XYZ, have no bearing on the guilt of a different client (A, B, or C).   

Lawyers that represented OJ Simpson or Charles Manson turned around the next day worked on home mortgage cases and incorporating a chain of supermarkets.   

It means nothing (nada, zip, zilch, diddly-squat) to say "oh this is OJ's lawyer."  That's what lawyers do: take different cases.  And rationale judges that hear those types of arguments understand that they are dealing with fanatics.

Guilt by association (through a lawyer) is something the Bolsheviks did; they would just round up so-&-so, because he knew so-&-so, who had coffee with so-&-so; and while we're at it, let's just kill so-&-so who slept with all of them.

In fact, it had a name The "Great Purge and Terror" (Большо́й терро́р).   It is understood as a campaign of political repression and  large-scale killing of  officials, political opponents; and terror against a wide spectrum of society from peasants to the Army leadership; and widespread police surveillance, suspicion of "saboteurs", "counter-revolutionaries", imprisonment, and arbitrary executions.

It was entirely rooted on who met with whom;  who knew whom.  And which lawyer represented which client. 

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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #9 on: 23:05 22-Jul-2017 »
Here's what some American Moms (even a couple Dems) wanna hear about.

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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #10 on: 23:19 22-Jul-2017 »
@Reggie:

For the last time?  I will believe that, when I don't see a repetition!

Reggie correctly states that association is, in general, an absolutely invalid basis for criminal conviction in a court of law.

Reggie seems to incorrectly confuse this forum with a criminal law court.  Neither I, nor anyone here (to my knowledge!) has an atom's weight of authority to legally convict, or for that matter to exonerate.  Therefore, we are NOT subject to the strictures of a criminal court.  DUH

If anyone needs tips on how to distinguish a criminal court from an internet forum, I'll be pleased to provide some.
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Studying associations (which are not in themselves criminal) is a completely valid, and in fact indispensable, technique of criminal investigation.  It does not determine who is guilty, but helps to identify suspects and persons of interest.

A great many crimes and criminals would have gone undiscovered, without the tracing of such associations.
_________________________________

It's hard to overstate how foolish it is, to apply such criminal court standards to other areas of life!

The processes of criminal courts (at least, as understood by those of us lucky enough to live in countries with liberal constitutions in force) are NOT, in the first instance, designed to reveal truth.

Instead these processes are, with very good reason, strongly biased toward the protection of defendants.  They are based on the famous maxim of Sir William Blackstone:  "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

This bias is a wonderfully humane feature of a system of criminal justice.

It's a bat-sh!t crazy way to understand what's happening in the world around us.

Not long ago, I read the comments of two pompous overgrown boys (on a different forum) demanding that no state should take action against another without proof "beyond a reasonable doubt," even on matters of national security!

If you want your country to disappear into history books, applying the standards of criminal courts in such an inappropriate domain is a grand start.
_________________________________

To give a more homely example, when starting a romantic or business relationship with someone, it is reasonable and prudent to take note of the kinds of people that person associates with.  YOU CAN LEARN A LOT THAT WAY.  If they have numerous connections with criminals or the morally depraved, there may be some good reason ... but it's damned stupid to ignore this!
_________________________________

Now, having sentenced Trump Jr to 50 lashes of flogging, I shall wait for the bailiff to take down the Sword of State from the paneled wall behind me, and retire to remove my powdered wig and black robes.

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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #11 on: 00:20 23-Jul-2017 »
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Reggie seems to incorrectly confuse this forum with a criminal law court. 

When you repeatedly suggest (Ad nauseam) that Trump committed crimes (the high-crime of Treason by working for Putin), that requires a discussion of - - - - (wait for it!) - - - - the criminal law.

You say the man committed a crime, but don't want a discussion of the criminal law?!!!  How does that make sense?   

I love this part:

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Reggie correctly states that association is, in general, an absolutely invalid basis for criminal conviction in a court of law.



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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #12 on: 01:07 23-Jul-2017 »
@Reggie:

Even if it were proved that Trump is Putin's paid agent, it is not at all clear to me that such would meet the legal standard for treason.

Reggie, over and over and over you commit the straw man fallacy:

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This is both without any constructive benefit, and exceedingly tiresome.  Would you kindly respond to what I actually say, rather than what you imagine I was thinking or implying?  I try in my writing to be really clear and specific.

Today, I simply reported that a Russian lawyer who met with Trump Jr represented a branch of the FSB and nonetheless disclaimed having worked for the Russian government.  That does not implicate any crime (as far as I know), and I DIDN'T SAY THERE WAS ANY CRIME.

Please please please please STOP WITH THE STRAW MAN.  You are intelligent and learned enough not to play such games.
_________________________________

Even if I had alleged a crime, there is a vital distinction between criminal law and criminal court procedure.

To give an example many readers can relate to, a criminal court found O J Simpson not guilty of homicide charges, and there, as a matter of law, the legal question of his criminal guilt in that case must stand.

At the same time, millions of ordinary citizens considered the evidence that was presented at the trial and concluded that his guilt of double murder was proven to near certainty -- very very likely, the truth of the matter.

Whether or not you agree with such citizen judgments, which have no legal force ... they are an example of applying a homely knowledge of criminal law (that it is a felony to violently deprive persons of their life in such circumstances) without being bound by the rules of the criminal court.  People do this every day.  There's nothing wrong with it!  To forbid it is madness, and would prevent the functioning of democracy.

Those who are not involved in a criminal trial as judge, jury, attorneys or other court officers are in no way bound by the rules of criminal procedure in seeking and making their best determination of the truth.  On what crazy planet, does it make sense to suggest otherwise?

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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #13 on: 01:22 23-Jul-2017 »


You accuse Trump of crimes, which requires  discussing criminal law, then to avoid discussing the law you write ridiculous things like this: "Reggie seems to incorrectly confuse this forum with a criminal law court."

Maybe you meant Trump violated one of the Ten Commandments, or sinned against Buddha, but to me it looked as if you were accusing Trump of violations of the criminal law.

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Re: Trump Jr: "I forgot"
« Reply #14 on: 01:32 23-Jul-2017 »
Quod Erat Demonstrandum